00:14
this film brings together professionals
00:17
from Health social care and education to
00:20
discuss some of the situations
00:21
highlighted in two parental mental
00:24
health case studies featured on social
00:26
care TV Wendy a mother story and Kate a
00:30
young person's story each professional
00:33
has experience of dealing with parental
00:35
mental health issues in the voluntary
00:37
sector in education in community mental
00:40
health and in family centers the
00:43
discussion is mediated by rows to pay
00:45
strong head of strategic development at
00:48
Family Action a charity that supports
00:50
disadvantaged families throughout
00:52
England she's joined by Paul Taylor
00:55
assistant head teacher with
00:56
responsibility for safeguarding young
00:58
adults at Belle Reve fcj Catholic
01:01
College in Liverpool Allen O'Leary
01:04
community mental health team manager
01:06
with Mercy care who works with adults
01:08
with mental health issues and Ruth hake
01:11
Ferguson who manages a number of
01:13
children's centres in central Liverpool
01:15
they begin by reviewing the story of
01:18
Kate whose mother has mental health
01:20
problems my name's Keith I'm 18 years
01:25
old and I care for my mum who has am a
01:28
few mental health problems
01:31
kate has been caring for her mum since
01:34
the age of seven and over the years as
01:36
her mum's mental health deteriorated
01:38
Kate's responsibilities grew when
01:40
affairs started happening we used to
01:43
live in a flats and we had a balcony I
01:44
should want to go outside try go over
01:47
the balcony basically she's waking me
01:49
off and we just sit there talking trying
01:51
to distract her from like the voices and
01:53
a head and sometimes I should go to
01:56
sleep at about 4,000 more and I like to
01:59
stay away and I can't go round to my
02:01
house where or something because I
02:05
always feel awake by then to go back to
02:07
sleep
02:07
brought about by six o'clock maybe seven
02:11
I've been a fence again and I have to
02:12
sleep in it'll either make me late for
02:15
school or if he's don't wear the right
02:17
chair for that day and ask who consoles
02:19
usually how their mentor
02:21
she was there to be a proper counselor
02:22
she used to say things I here just acted
02:24
out to get attention of stuffin Oh miss
02:28
Lee I was poor not for the reasons she's
02:31
thinking I'll she even knew don't mean
02:33
my my mental health problems because she
02:34
asked me what was happening at home and
02:35
then she said well don't bring it to
02:37
school goes well what was the point in
02:39
me telling you if we should pause there
02:43
cos Kate was just saying quite a lot
02:44
about some of the issues for her I
02:46
wonder if the same would be true for
02:48
Kate today if that was happening to her
02:50
no as opposed to happening a few years
02:52
ago what I would hope would happen if
02:54
there was a case of my school was the
02:57
person that she felt confident enough to
02:59
open up to would have had the necessary
03:02
input to realize that there were certain
03:06
textbook signals about Kate's lifestyle
03:08
you know and straightaway realize not
03:11
everything is good for this child I need
03:14
to get someone else involved rather than
03:17
say to her we've that sort of stuff at
03:19
the school gates when you come in that
03:22
was a story that was crying out for a
03:24
common assessment framework to be done
03:26
and quite frankly as a teacher I
03:29
wouldn't have been able to know all of
03:32
the different things and for me what
03:34
pops up there is that whole issue about
03:35
training what I would like to see is
03:37
that every member of staff at some level
03:40
of training so that if they are the one
03:42
who can pick up on the little nuances
03:44
that suggested this is a child crying
03:47
out for help
03:48
and while the person might be the one to
03:52
address all her needs they will turn to
03:55
someone within the organisation who does
03:58
know the contacts and the other agencies
04:00
and has got the confidence to ring those
04:02
agencies and start the dialogues that
04:05
will lead to support for Kate and I
04:08
think so often what you come across
04:10
these parts on Children's Services side
04:12
the fear of mental health issues and
04:14
then sometimes on adult size the fear of
04:16
you know and kind of dealing with
04:17
children's
04:18
you know I'm just thinking through the
04:19
how we can actually work collaboratively
04:22
with colleagues in Children Services
04:24
because those of us who work and focus
04:26
on adults with mental health problems
04:28
you know the issue for us is that's who
04:30
were focusing on and that's where our
04:33
skills and expertise
04:34
is lie it's not where the needs of the
04:37
children so there is that apprehension
04:39
and anxiety about treading into areas
04:42
that we've got no expertise in it's the
04:44
joint training isn't it so that the
04:46
staff from the different teams as we do
04:48
fairly well with safeguarding we need to
04:50
do it more I think with more skills
04:52
sharing so that's the adults workers can
04:55
relate to workers with children and
04:58
share their skills and knowledge and
05:00
understanding what they all do doing the
05:02
joint training yeah would be really
05:04
beneficial but again it's about
05:06
releasing staff members to do that when
05:09
it's not their core work perhaps we
05:11
could have a champion within each team
05:13
that could go off and do that joint
05:16
training who could then be you know the
05:19
spokesperson within the team to keep it
05:20
on the agenda for those of us who work
05:22
specifically with them I think named
05:24
individuals in both to do that liaison
05:26
work is really good because obviously
05:28
there are practical issues that that are
05:30
difficult because the other elements are
05:32
fear a thing can be that actually I
05:33
might ask a question that I almost don't
05:35
want to hear the answer to because it's
05:37
gonna open up such an enormous area and
05:39
I as a practitioner I'm afraid of how to
05:41
deal with that I'm afraid of what might
05:43
be involved and particularly perhaps of
05:44
practitioners who already have a rather
05:46
bulging caseload and perhaps on a bad
05:48
day it can just feel like one thing too
05:50
many but it's I think it's it's also not
05:52
to say to each group of worker that
05:54
we're actually taking over your work
05:56
what we're doing we're still just doing
05:58
our own but we're going to ask for your
06:01
expertise and seeing that in a concrete
06:03
example that for Kate I think it would
06:06
have helped if if the school worker
06:08
would have been able to have access to
06:10
adult mental health services to ask
06:12
their advice but if Kate was happy with
06:14
that worker
06:15
you wouldn't want Kate overwhelmed with
06:17
three or four different workers so I
06:19
think it's it's how that's done yeah but
06:21
it's just sharing that the the expertise
06:23
and then no no I can call on them you
06:25
helped me breaking down those personal
06:28
barriers I think sometimes and it's
06:30
interesting that isn't it because if
06:31
once you know someone then it obviously
06:32
makes it easier doesn't it either to
06:34
drop by the office or pick up the phone
06:36
one of the things raised by
06:38
practitioners is that sometimes with
06:39
staff turnover in teams you might get to
06:42
know
06:43
you know sue and she's the person that
06:46
you link with but then maybe in six
06:48
months goes by and you've not had much
06:50
contact for whatever reason and then you
06:52
pick up the phone and all that she sues
06:53
golden and again I think is there
06:56
something wrong confidence to then
06:57
continue and not just say all fight and
06:59
forget it but actually say oh well sorry
07:02
you know Sue's not there but actually is
07:03
there someone else I can talk to that
07:04
builds the confidence of the
07:06
practitioner or an either side to be
07:07
able to say well actually I do need to
07:09
talk to someone I think before we move
07:11
on from Kate's story it's very important
07:13
that when Kate finally has the courage
07:16
to disclose well this is what's going on
07:18
in my life if the member of staff even
07:22
gives away the slightest hint that
07:23
they're making some judgments they Kate
07:26
will either think right well I need to
07:28
protect my mum from there or we'll
07:31
communicate that judgements and and the
07:34
parent themselves will think right well
07:36
I'm not going to involve myself with
07:38
someone who's already made the judgments
07:41
on me and therefore if you try to
07:43
instigate a calf because it doesn't need
07:46
parental involvement then it's gonna go
07:49
nowhere because right away all those
07:51
things start to kick in about well if I
07:54
admit to my problems there's a chance my
07:56
children will be taken away I think
07:58
that's something you're right I think it
07:59
takes us into that whole issue of stigma
08:01
and a like sort of brought in the
08:02
conversation so we start thinking about
08:04
things more from the parents side and
08:07
which was you know thinking about the
08:08
other film and Wendy's story so I wonder
08:12
whether it'd be helpful just to have a
08:13
look at that briefly yep I was married
08:16
for 18 years had three children and the
08:20
marriage broke up we've just basically
08:22
grew apart I met somebody else and
08:25
meeting that somebody else I got myself
08:27
pregnant
08:28
with my son I had to fight for my
08:33
children had to go from a house where I
08:35
had absolutely everything security in
08:38
tuganda living with someone else in one
08:39
bedroom and in that relationship just
08:43
before I gave birth to my son I found
08:47
out the partners wolf was cheating on me
08:50
then he started hitting me all the money
08:53
was going because he was gambling
08:54
everything but i bottled everything up
08:58
kept it to myself and when I gave birth
09:00
even then when they just give you the
09:02
baby I didn't want him people were
09:04
coming he was just laying there crying
09:05
because I just think when I hold him and
09:07
when family come over I put on a front
09:09
for them and I've done what I had to do
09:11
looked after him and done what I had to
09:12
do but completely rejected him I
09:14
remember the health visitor coming round
09:17
and she got me to fill in this form
09:19
which are filled in and she said that
09:22
there's signs of postnatal depression
09:24
did I feel fine I told her I did
09:26
obviously I did and I said yeah I'm fine
09:27
it's fine and then because the way I was
09:30
feeling I didn't like going out so I
09:32
never took Dominic to the health
09:33
visitors for checks I need to go for his
09:36
jabs where they where before with my
09:37
four kids I took them every two weeks to
09:40
get weighed but we've done that I didn't
09:41
do that
09:42
okay well that's some pause Italy I
09:45
think we heard quite a lot from Wendy
09:47
about what the issues were for her I
09:50
think again at the senator Kate in some
09:52
ways there seem to be a lot of missed
09:53
opportunities of the early intervention
09:56
for example children Santa's could have
09:58
had that have they been made aware from
10:01
say that the midwives and the house was
10:03
just an early stage could have got in
10:05
there sorted out some of that the
10:07
housing problems the kind of benefit
10:09
problems looked at the issues with some
10:11
of the older children and why she was
10:13
feeling as she did giving her more
10:16
support at that stage even prenatally
10:18
there's a lot of things that could be
10:19
done and with our relationships I think
10:21
with with midwives and house visitors we
10:23
know that people will say things are
10:26
okay but actually we need to probe a
10:28
little bit deeper and one of the things
10:29
that we're asking it within the Women's
10:32
Hospital and the early antenatal visits
10:34
is to ask the right questions I know she
10:37
was asked but I think it's asking was
10:39
you know
10:40
an increased awareness if you like I
10:43
think for me it's also being mindful of
10:45
the situations that some people are in
10:47
in the alarm bells would have been going
10:50
off for me
10:51
in terms of her living in one room with
10:54
four children hmm yeah that's and you
10:57
know it's also the her pride in trying
11:01
to keep everything together and she said
11:03
she wasn't sharing that with with family
11:04
members but she was clearly struggling
11:07
again that's bound to have be having an
11:09
impact on her general well-being as well
11:12
as a mental health yes and it's how we
11:14
engage those people who were involved in
11:17
her life significant others because it's
11:18
not just about family but significant
11:20
people in that person's life you know
11:23
within the community mental health teams
11:25
we were to attempt to engage them
11:27
because it's about their degree of
11:30
understanding and what the issues might
11:31
be it's a fine balancing issue around
11:35
the service users are agreeing to that
11:39
and also being very clear around what
11:41
information we may share with them you
11:44
know within Liverpool we will provide
11:47
significant others where the carers
11:50
assessment and that's about you know
11:52
what their needs may be in caring for
11:54
them for that individual yeah absolutely
11:56
and I think practical things that can
11:58
help actually working directly both with
12:00
them sort of parents and and children
12:04
young people the working in people's
12:05
homes is sometimes it might be something
12:08
as simple as actually just sort of going
12:10
through a drawer full of bills which are
12:11
piled out port unopened envelopes so
12:14
firstly the fact that some you know
12:16
that's showing all that parent has the
12:18
confidence to let you into their home in
12:20
the first place I mean that isn't always
12:21
a straightforward and easy thing as I'm
12:23
sure many practitioners will recognize
12:26
but just about establishing a
12:28
relationship of trust and then being
12:30
able to have offer quite practical help
12:31
as well as the emotional help that goes
12:34
along with that but I wondered if you
12:35
have other other thoughts about some of
12:38
the sort of practical helps it you know
12:39
that you know well it's rare that
12:42
somebody are thinking when his position
12:43
will walk through the door of a
12:44
children's and she needs to be guided
12:46
and learned but once that relationship
12:48
has been made and the trust is that she
12:50
could introduce her to a peer group of
12:52
people
12:53
in a similar position and then maybe
12:55
colleagues even from extended school for
12:58
the older children can come into the
13:00
Children's Center where she is she is so
13:01
she doesn't need to do all that running
13:03
around practically yeah that's one of
13:05
the things they can do is bring in and
13:07
contact those people see someone from
13:09
within a community mental health team or
13:11
anything else can be done in the one
13:12
place kind of one-stop-shop thing one of
13:14
the practical things I do when I'm
13:16
meeting people for supervision
13:17
staff members is ask are there any
13:21
children how are the children
13:23
how would you know you know just keeping
13:25
that prompt and making sure that it's on
13:27
the agenda clearly getting it right it's
13:29
hard because you know otherwise I guess
13:30
we'd have done it by now
13:31
we saw them but I just wondered whether
13:33
you've got any thoughts about you know
13:35
what do you think the real barriers are
13:36
that gets in the way because we've we've
13:38
probably identified some of them around
13:40
some of the sort of fear that can be
13:42
around or perhaps their need for
13:44
confidence but I wondered whether
13:45
there's anything else that you know from
13:48
your own experience that even you would
13:49
like to add we're all very busy
13:51
practitioners aren't we try to remember
13:52
that there are you know a need to just
13:56
make those links I think I think
13:58
sometimes it's not delivered it's just
14:00
another awareness and a time factor and
14:02
it's just making that extra effort I
14:04
think there's an issue for me in terms
14:07
of how we deliver services now because
14:10
when I originally trained as a social
14:11
worker 25 years ago I trained as a
14:13
generic social worker so I worked with
14:15
with children with with families with
14:18
adults with physical health problems
14:20
older people people with mental health
14:22
problems and you carried a generic
14:25
caseload and over over time you know
14:27
we've moved into specialist teams
14:29
because we wanted to deliver the best
14:31
service but people don't fall into neat
14:34
categories and yes and it's it's really
14:38
encouraging to see these Skye guidelines
14:41
come out because it's getting us back to
14:43
think family think parent to think child
14:46
and with the guidelines as well it's
14:48
it's challenging some of the stigma
14:50
that's around with mental health it's
14:52
getting mental health up onto the agenda
14:54
again yeah yeah absolutely and I think
14:57
that you know having that framework
14:58
there I think it's you know what you
15:00
were saying both in terms of different
15:01
disciplines it brings people together
15:03
and it probably in terms of
15:05
from you know within organizations
15:07
actually recognition that you know
15:08
there's a role for senior management to
15:10
make sure that they're engaged and
15:12
making sure that messages are
15:13
communicated you know as well as
15:15
actually on the ground practitioners
15:17
linking up with you know sort of
15:18
colleagues from different different
15:20
disciplines I think I think the
15:22
guidelines give gives all the senior
15:24
managers that the kind of backing to put
15:27
that message across and then is that
15:29
there's a kind of reason and a reference
15:31
point for why they're that they're
15:33
giving it to their staff the manage it
15:35
is I think it is filtering down yeah
15:46
you
